interesting thoughts...

[katster]

a discussion on #c got me thinking about this idea...

can one be a patriot and a global citizen at the same time? I honestly consider myself both, and don't have any trouble reconciling the two, mainly because I believe a patriot's job is to fix what's broken in his or her country. And right now the thing that is broken about my country is that we can't play nicely with the rest of the world. I want to fix this...

So, I'm opening the floor to discussion of this thought. Have fun.

Comments

[ms-interpret.livejournal.com]

Well, as I was a big part of that discussion, you know my feelings. :) I've had more time to think on it, and I think it does all come down to what the definition of patriot is. To me, it implies a sort of zealous attitude that "My country is the best in the world". Once a person starts believing that, then how on earth can they be a world citizen?

To me, patriotism means nationalist pride - an "Us first" attitude. Claiming world citizenship and patriotism feels like "Do things our way. It's really best for the world". I'm *NOT* saying that's how you feel. I'm not saying that's how any of the people in channel feel. I'm saying that's what it feels like to me, within the definition of patriotism I have.

Personally, I like the country I live in. I like living here more than I would like living in a lot of other countries. But I'm *not* proud of us. Our human rights record isn't nearly as good as it should be. We don't look after our poor or our children as well as we should, and as for the rest of the planet, we don't seem to care much about them. We kiss the US's ass on just about everything. I'm utterly shocked that Chrétien didn't blindly follow Bush on this latest bit of warmongering. I'm sickened by most of the things my government does. So, no. I'm not a patriot. I'm not proud to be a member of this country. As much as I like living here, I'm not proud of it. And when I see people claiming pride in their countries, I wonder how they can reconcile that with what's going on in their countries and around the world.

I'm not making myself as clear as I'd like. I'm really going to have to think on this for a few days to see if I can clarify it at all.

"Pride is an established conviction of one's own paramount worth in some particular respect" Arthur Schopenhauer

This nails it, I think. Patriotism is pride. Being patriotic is the conviction of one's country's paramount worth. "We're more important than the rest of you".

Ramble over. :)
(I'm *so* glad we could discuss this and not get snippy at one another! :) Too many times I've had this conversation and seen all parties get very defensive and upset. I'm glad we're not doing that.)